I think it's high time that we planned a way to let as many capable high school students as possible know that we exist, so that we can help those new to programming get started right!
Things to do:
School programming clubs
In response to the helpful comments below, why don't we maintain information on how to start SchoolComputerClubs? (Follow the link!)
Word of mouth
Always a good idea. Tell as many potentially interested people as you can about us!
Posters & co.
Put up the usual visual advertisements. Any ideas for content and appearance?
I have a crrazy idea. Pep rallies. If an individual is a member of whatever program which sets them up, somehow integrate hprog.org into a skit or large banner. That'd surely peek the interest of those who would rather be coding than watching some idiotic set of events for a big sports game... -- RyanMikulovsky
Get the word out to teachers
We can try to reach CS and math teachers through publications that they read, asking them to tell their students.
This is a great idea because school starts up again pretty soon. I'm going to make a web site for our robotics/computers/programming club when we get together again and I'll have a link to HProg on the main page. -- MikeNolan
School doesn't start soon. In America, and at least in my state, not for another 2 months, at least.
Most introductory computer classes have a project about the history of computing. If we were to take advantage of that fact, then we might draw in some researching students who might actually care about our real content. In the JAVA programming class I was in (and basically guided the instructor as mentioned above) most of them did not care about programming, however. They all had thought it would be an easy escape from more difficult classes. Well, they were wrong... (most of them ended up getting Ds) Anyway, clubs ARE the answer. There must be a "key" in the world of search engines to draw these people in. Another thought I just had was, certain magazines have really really cheap advertising space in the very back. Anything ranging from Astronomy to Physics publications would be ideal. -- RyanMikulovsky
I shall be hoping to set up a club entitled "Game Programming" when I go back to school. (I'm not that interrested in games programming, but it should get a few people interested. I will see how many of them will become regulars around here. Maybe if that works a couple of people should try it. About the advertising in the back of magazines, cheap advertising means adverts that no one ever looks at. As I have suggested before, we could write a standard advertisement letter (obviously more explaining what the site is about rather than a persuasive advertisement, the recipient to simply being asked to mention the site in their classes). Then each person here could send it to all the high schools in their area -- DonalConnolly
A question about names; high-school in america is between 14 and 18, right? And, what is the "next level" called, i.e. when you study to get a masters degree or something (the literal translation of the swedish/german term would be "technical high-school") ? -- MarkusB
In North America after you complete High School you can go onto either university or college (college has stuff like plumbing, hair styling, and networking job skill training. Not advanced computer science laboratories or any of that stuff). Neither are mandatory or free, so they are usually thought about seperatly from public education -- JeffreyKnaggs
The distinction that Jeff drew between "college" and "university" is mostly false. There is no real difference as far as students fresh out of high school are concerned. The same sorts of undergraduate classes and degrees are offered by the leading colleges and universities. Universities are more associated with research and graduate school, but there is no hard and fast distinction. Americans will generally say "I'm going to college" to mean what Europeans would say as "I'm going to uni." American masters degree programs generally require completion of 4-year bachelor's (undergraduate) degree programs before you can begin them, and most masters degree programs are separate from bachelor's degrees (and people usually go to different schools for the two, if they get masters degrees at all), unlike the situation I hear of in Europe, where you start a degree program with a master's degree as the goal around age 18. -- AdamChlipala
Very few courses in the UK teach to masters level (I would say 95% don't). Then of the bachelor graduates, only a small proportion would do a postgrad degree. A bachelors degree normally takes 3 years here. A masters then takes a further year in the vast majority of cases. -- DonalConnolly (Living in UK)
Thank you for clarifying that for me, Adam. I was thinking more of the local post secondary education establishments that teach you how to be an electrician etc. when I said college, but the way you put it makes more sense then what I was trying to say and is more correct. At any rate, MarkusB probably has his answer now. -- JeffreyKnaggs
Indeed, thanks for all answeres! It was something I was wondering about some while ago, mostly because I had thoughts about studying a year somewhere else, maybe even as far as Canada/USA (if I get to go there)... -- MarkusB
A correction for AdamChlipala, in the United States college and university maybe different, however in Canada there is a definite distinction. Publicly funded colleges are almost all Community Colleges (from my research I discovered that). These colleges actually have only program diploma, and are very much into the practical application. It is the universities that are higher level (theory more than practical) offer what you would think universities would (and at higher cost). The high school students do know what the difference is here, because they have to target one or the other early on in highschool. -- JeffreyDrake
On an unrelated note, I have had a thought yesterday (yes, that happen sometimes!). Wouldn't it be a good idea to make another face for HProg? By face, I mean a new, static, sober webpage meant to be shown to teachers and other official figures. The page could contain few informations about the organisation, about the wiki and how it works, why it would be good for their student to join us and few contact email addresses (or 1 group address) for them to ask questions. Don't get me wrong, I don't say the wiki isn't good. It is extremely good for members of the community. But to reach people like teachers and other more or less Internet-aware persons, I think a more standard page would be welcome. I could myself make that page but I can't do it alone. I need somebody good enough with graphics to help me for that. That also means we would need to decide on a logo.
If you want i could help you with php or simpel webdesign..hey i know some good webdesigners --henning
There's no reason that such a page can't be on the wiki. I can even set up a special domain that uses a particular page here as its front page. -- AdamChlipala
The page I'm thinking about should not carry the burden of the wiki. The target audience doesn't need to see the navigation bar, the icons on the upper-right corner and the bar on the bottom. Of course, you may be able to setup a special read-only 'sub-wiki' of our current wiki. That could allow us to setup the apparence of the wiki, change the navbar and remove unneeded features. The content of the pages could reside on the normal wiki. I think the MoinMoin wiki has that kind of setup. There is a public wiki, and a less-visible master wiki. The master wiki contains help files and setup informations help files and is transparently merged with the main wiki. From the main wiki, the pages of the master wiki are not editable.
Well of course, if it was only about the content, then I would not have made that proposition. I know the wiki can hold it fine. But we are talking about the marketing of HProg. Having the nicest community in the world helps a lot, but being good looking helps too. The wiki is handy, but it loooks awful. The question is: do we care? I think we should care at least a bit!
On the MoinMoin wiki, the pages on the master wikis and included in relevant pages on the public wiki using the [[Include]] macro. Soft links on the server a probably enough to share pages between 2 wiki instances. -- FrancoisDenisGonthier
I would prefer that hprog.org refer to an html site that got an button or link hprogCommunity who refer to hprog.org/fhp .On the html page you can see all infos and stories about hprog/tpu --henning
Well, henning, I disprefer that. :P I half-heartedly support having a separate "pretty" page that is not the default page for the domain, but the wiki should be the main thing for normal chance vistors. -- AdamChlipala
If you want someone to work on a logo or any other form of graphics or web design, I'll be more than happy to help. I work with graphics a lot and am pretty efficient in that department. -- JaredDanilson
Jared, that would be great! Can you make a logo to replace the little Moin,Moin guy on the upper left of this page? We've been looking for that for a while, and there's been some discussion on HprogLogo. Thanks! -- AdamChlipala
Adam, sure thing. If I could get some ideas of what everyone else wants that would be great. Until then, I'll just try to make something I see fit -- JaredDanilson
We don't know what kind of logo we want but we know what we don't want:
hm, ok. Also, HprogLogo may be a more appropriate place for ideas. -- JaredDanilson